Non-Christians: What if the Earth really was 6000 years old?

[ninjalooter1701]

Originally Posted by Zephyrius

The problem christians have if they are dating the world biblically is that no one knows the time passed from when Adam was created to when Adam sinned. Adam was immortal basically until he ate the "forbidden" fruit. When he committed this sin, death entered the human species thus the reason to keep time. So whose to say Adam and Eve didn't live a couple of million years.

So, why was God "keeping time" when he created different parts of the cosmos on different days? Do we need DEATH just to keep time?

I assume that you're the same Zephyrius that I know from another board...

[Zephyrius]

God is beyond time... he is not limited to it. So when He created the cosmos what did it matter? Time only matters to mortal man. Adam and Eve became mortal when they were banished from eden(paradise). That day of banishment was the beginning of "time" as we know it.

Yes I'm that Zephyrius

Zeph

[ninjalooter1701]

I see you still love the circular logic.

Thaanatos and Black Lance need some friends.

[Zephyrius]

So, why was God "keeping time" when he created different parts of the cosmos on different days?

I never said God was "keeping time".
better?

Zeph

[ninjalooter1701]

Originally Posted by Zephyrius

I never said God was "keeping time".
better?

Zeph

Ok then:

thus the reason to keep time

Who had, THUS, the reason to keep time?

[Zephyrius]

I'm speculating on my part....

Adam being immortal while living in the "garden", what need would there be to for him to keep time? He surely would not have been aging in Eden if he was immortal. Death did not enter the human lexicon until Adam sinned by eating the forbidden fruit.

The bible says that adam lived for 930yrs or so but could it be that is simply representative of the number of years he lived after being expelled from the "garden"? My speculation is that like a child punished to his room or a man sent to prison one would begin counting the time of his/her punishment. Or even, Adam began counting the days/years until his return to paradise which wasn't going to happen until Christ came into the world. If this is the case then we have no idea how long Adam lived before the "fall".

Zeph

[spindok]

Originally Posted by Zephyrius

I'm speculating on my part....

Adam being immortal while living in the "garden", what need would there be to for him to keep time? He surely would not have been aging in Eden if he was immortal. Death did not enter the human lexicon until Adam sinned by eating the forbidden fruit.

The bible says that adam lived for 930yrs or so but could it be that is simply representative of the number of years he lived after being expelled from the "garden"? My speculation is that like a child punished to his room or a man sent to prison one would begin counting the time of his/her punishment. Or even, Adam began counting the days/years until his return to paradise which wasn't going to happen until Christ came into the world. If this is the case then we have no idea how long Adam lived before the "fall".

Zeph

Here is one I wondered about.

When G-d made all the trees did he also make some of them old dead rotting trees so the termites would have somewhere to live?

Spindok

[Xentil]

Originally Posted by Zan de Man

What if it could be proven that moon rock was dairy-based? Would that alter the way you view the Moon?

No, it would just prove my present belief of course!

[CookieD18]

I just find it odd that people put so much faith into the Bible. It is written by man, obvious flaw already. Then it only mentions political systems, and animals, and morals based generally on the middle eastern area. no mention of other lands (America, Australia) and no mention of animals from other lands or stuff like fossils (animals like Komodo Dragons, Kangaroos etc etc).

The way I see all religion, is that they try to adapt by changing their story to fit new ideas. Christianity, and probably Islam and Judaism too, believed the world was flat, and you were damned to hell as a heretic until they were totally proved wrong. This is one example, and a great many forums have wasted time pointing each example out, of how religion is wrong and how it has messed us about.

I suggest we do not bother trying to convert each other until the waters clear, and we can see where we are going. Until then, why keep swimming in circles (in muddy waters).

[01]

"...and you were damned to hell as a heretic until they were totally proved wrong."

Not much has changed in that premise.

[Zan de Man]

That post was a bit biased Cookie. Can't you balance it with some pro-religion perspectives?

[CookieD18]

Do you deny the Bible was written by man? Id say thats a fact, not an opinion.

Am I wrong to suggest that religions change and mould themselves to their peoples current views? The Romans, as we all know, based Christianity on Paganism and Greek Gods. Seems that was pretty balanced.

If you said the Earth was round, or that the Sun did not orbit the Earth before Columbus, were you branded a heretic, or did the pope just let you be, and ask if we could still be friends? If you were lucky you would be exiled or excommunicated. Usually, you were hunted down and killed in some slow and painful way. Fire was standard.

If there were any way to balance these simple facts out, all I could say is that religion has done some good things in its time. Like charity, education (albeit indoctrinating people with it, and usually teaching them nonsense), morality etc.

So there you go. Balance.

[Spyder Jerusalem]

Originally Posted by Zephyrius

The problem christians have if they are dating the world biblically is that no one knows the time passed from when Adam was created to when Adam sinned. Adam was immortal basically until he ate the "forbidden" fruit. When he committed this sin, death entered the human species thus the reason to keep time. So whose to say Adam and Eve didn't live a couple of million years.

Zeph

And who's to say "jesus" didn't blow goats?
I mean, its not in the fuckin' "bible", but that doesn't mean it's not "possible", right?

SHIT!

God is beyond time... he is not limited to it.

Got some way to prove that, or is it just another stupid "belief" without any rational foundation?

[spindok]

The way I see all religion, is that they try to adapt by changing their story to fit new ideas. Christianity, and probably Islam and Judaism too, believed the world was flat, and you were damned to hell as a heretic until they were totally proved wrong. This is one example, and a great many forums have wasted time pointing each example out, of how religion is wrong and how it has messed us about.

What is wrong with adapting to fit new ideas?

Why should religion be different than other fields of human activity?

So far as I know, at this point, all major religions agree that the earth is, approximately, round.

Spindok

[Spyder Jerusalem]

But it took human science to bring that realization about, not divine revelation.
Until the religicos realized they could no longer stem the tide of knowledge with their superstitious tripe, they looked to fit theri superstitions in with the reality.

Religion has never been a friend to science.

[thaanatos]

The Romans, as we all know, based Christianity on Paganism and Greek Gods.

lol, we know that do we?.....you must know Spyder....has he been teaching you theology?....he has the same absurd ideas.....

[Spyder Jerusalem]

Their not "absurd", they are archaelogical fact.

And only deluded christer-fucks like you don't agree.

But, then, that's not unusual.
Christer-fucks have always argued against science, knowing that the revelations of human discovery always overturn their mythological applecart.

The Mysterious Dying God

An inscription in the Vatican states plainly, "He who will not eat of my body, nor drink of my blood, so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved." This is not terribly surprising, unless you consider that this is inscribed on the remains of the temple the Vatican was built on- one dedicated to the God Mithras. Mithras was a solar deity whose worshippers called him redeemer; his religion died out not long after the advent of Christianity.
Such eerie parallels between the pronouncements of Jesus and Mithras are not the only similarities between the two religions. Mithras was known to his followers as "The light of the world," or "The Good Shepherd," and exhorted his followers to share ritual communion meals of bread and wine. His preists were called "Father."
Mithras was also born in a cave, with shepherds in attendance, on the twenty-fifth of December. (Alternatively, he is assisted in his birth from a stone by shepherds.)

Are these just coincidences? Absolutely not. Fourth century Bishop John Chrysostom writes : "On this day also the Birthday of Christ was lately fixed at Rome in order that while the heathen were busy with their profane ceremonies, the Christians might perform their sacred rites undisturbed. They call this the Birthday of the Invincible One; but who is so invincible as the Lord? They call it the Birthday of the Solar Disk, but Christ is the Sun of Righteousness."

Consider this- several other Gods share the December birthday, and like Mithras, they are also solar deities, who are born in the winter solstices, often of virgin mothers, die, and are reborn. One of these, a pre-Christian deity called Attis, was called "The lamb of God," and his crucifixion and subsequent resurrection were celebrated annually, with ritual communions of bread and wine. His virgin mother, Cybele, was worshipped as "The Queen of heaven." It gets more interesting the further back we look- Attis and Cybele's predecessors are the Babylonian Goddess Ishtar, and her consort Tammuz. It is from their legend that we get the name for the annual celebration of the resurrection of Christ- Easter, a name of the Goddess Ishtar.

This is not the only coincidence related to this ancient couple- the earliest use of the cross as a religious symbol is related to Tammuz. In fact, crosses are related to a variety of solar deities. Of course, the cross was not popular with early Christians, except in the form of an X, the Greek initial of "Christos." (Even this was borrowed symbolism- the initials belonging to the Greek Chronos.)

Good Shepherds?



BACCHUS CRUCIFIED



Dionysus resurrected; his followers do not recognize him... The story of Dionysus' execution by the state and resurrection appears four hundred years before the birth oif Christ.

[spindok]

Originally Posted by Spyder Jerusalem

But it took human science to bring that realization about, not divine revelation.
Until the religicos realized they could no longer stem the tide of knowledge with their superstitious tripe, they looked to fit theri superstitions in with the reality.

Religion has never been a friend to science.

If you say that then you are talking about a different concept of religion than the one I know.

My idea is much broader than revelation.

Spindok

[CookieD18]

Originally Posted by CookieD18

I suggest we do not bother trying to convert each other until the waters clear, and we can see where we are going. Until then, why keep swimming in circles (in muddy waters).

As I already said, we are not going to convince each other. Why try, until todays issues are dealt with.

Stick to politics. Its hard enough to convert people from their Earth-bound views, never mind perceived heavenly ones. In the future we will have more information. Then we will debate this more effectively.

[ninjalooter1701]

CookieD18, in the meantime, we will wind up teaching "Intelligent Design" in our classrooms, is that what you want?