IF Gore had won in 2000

[Tom Joad]

Would the U.S. be better off today?

[potter]

Is this a poll?

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by potter

Is this a poll?

Smart ass.

[potter]

To answer your question...

Well...we would have probably continued to pay down the national debt so theres a big chunk O' change that could have been used to reduce taxes...

We wouldn't have invaded Iraq....and Saddam would still be contained.

We may have paid attention to "the memo", and even if 9/11 had still happened we would have squashed Al Queda in Afghanistan and caught Osama then let the UN take over from there....and the US would be looked upon with admiration....

The little oil games being played now by those who now own the white house wouldn't be happening and perhaps we wouldn't be in a recession.

He may have reigned in federal (spend spend spend) monetary policy and not allowed the housing bubble to even happen....

and I'm certain we would have a clean energy plan in place and in the works.

We would still not torture and the consitution would still be intact.

[Underhill]

Originally Posted by potter

To answer your question...

Well...we would have probably continued to pay down the national debt so theres a big chunk O' change that could have been used to reduce taxes...

We wouldn't have invaded Iraq....and Saddam would still be contained.

We may have paid attention to "the memo", and even if 9/11 had still happened we would have squashed Al Queda in Afghanistan and caught Osama then let the UN take over from there....and the US would be looked upon with admiration....

The little oil games being played now by those who now own the white house wouldn't be happening and perhaps we wouldn't be in a recession.

He may have reigned in federal (spend spend spend) monetary policy and not allowed the housing bubble to even happen....

and I'm certain we would have a clean energy plan in place and in the works.

We would still not torture and the consitution would still be intact.

I agree with some of that but I think the housing bubble would have still happened and I'm still not certain that he wouldn't have taken us into Iraq.

The CIA wanted us there, bussiness wanted us there. I'm not sure the president would know the wool was being pulled over his eyes.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Underhill

I'm still not certain that he wouldn't have taken us into Iraq.

The CIA wanted us there, bussiness wanted us there. I'm not sure the president would know the wool was being pulled over his eyes.

I don't think there is any way Gore would have invaded Iraq.

[Dave]

Technically Gore did win in 2000 but the US, indeed the world is worse off.

If the supreme court ruled in Gore's favour, then I imagine we would be living in a more secure and safer world.

[potter]

Originally Posted by Underhill

The CIA wanted us there, bussiness wanted us there. I'm not sure the president would know the wool was being pulled over his eyes.

Compare Gore to Bush.....

[clownboy]

The What If game is never gonna yield definitive answers, but these alternate world things are fun. I voted no.

Gore had his strengths, but he also had his corruptions too. Remember, even if he was POTUS there would still have been a republican majority Congress and WorldCOM/Enron would have exploded regardless and 9/11 would still have happened.

I don't believe we'd have gone to Iraq, and Gore would have continued the CIA's restructuring to analyst-only. We'd have still been clueless in that part of the world and AQ and Saddam would have taken good advantage of that. The sanctions would be off Iraq, the Kurds would be toast, and most likely the war between Iraq and Iran would be in full swing by now. AQ would have been successful at at least two more actions on US soil. Pakistan and India would most likely be at war.

The economy would be closer to being entirely foreign dependent and we'd still be pulling in the same amount of foreign oil (albeit from different source countries, but maybe not).

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Underhill

I agree with some of that but I think the housing bubble would have still happened

Greenspan is responsible for the housing buble. Dropping intrest rates to 1% was outrageously irresponsible.

Would he have done that with Gore as President? I don't know but I kind of doubt it.

[Dufrel]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Greenspan is responsible for the housing buble. Dropping intrest rates to 1% was outrageously irresponsible.

Would he have done that with Gore as President? I don't know but I kind of doubt it.

I would say offering loans to groups of people who had no ability to afford them was more likely the cause of the bubble bursting.

[clownboy]

Deregulation of that sector spearheaded by Graham and McCain is what "caused" this debacle. Had the industry remained regulated the bad loans wouldn't have been offered.

[donquixote99]

Congrats on post 3000, CB!

[Zan de Man]

I don't believe the CIA wanted the US into Iraq. Rumsfeld had to create his own "intelligence agency" to get the "evidence" he wanted.

[ninjalooter1701]

We'd have still been clueless in that part of the world and AQ and Saddam would have taken good advantage of that.

I'm curious, aside from the ridiculous lumping together of Saddam and Al Qaeda, what deception would Saddam have continued?

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Dufrel

I would say offering loans to groups of people who had no ability to afford them was more likely the cause of the bubble bursting.

Quite and the same goes for lenders in the UK as well. Offering 125% mortgages was ridiculous to start with. The guy on the street walking past your house technically owns more of your house than you do, if you are lumbered with a 125% mortgage.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Dufrel

I would say offering loans to groups of people who had no ability to afford them was more likely the cause of the bubble bursting.

Duff, I would like to take this oportunity to remind you of a conversation we had in March of 2007.

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

No responsibility for the lenders? Seems like it would make good business sense to screen your borrowers so you don't get stuck with a lot of bad debt.

Originally Posted by Dufrel

They get the property + the payments that were already made.

Lenders wet dream.

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Repoing a $200,000 house with a $300,000 mortgage isn't all that great a dream, wet or dry.

Originally Posted by Dufrel

well the housing market is still higher then it was when most of the arms started going out (5 years ago) so I would say with the payments they have recieved + resale they are still way ahead of the game.

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Dream on Duff. Those subprime lenders are sweating bullets. They will be crying to your chimp for a bail out like his old man did for the Savings and Loan bastards. Guess you're to young to remember that Republican cornholeing huh? Doesn't matter, you will be paying for it with your tax dollars long after you're my age.

[clownboy]

Originally Posted by ninjalooter1701

I'm curious, aside from the ridiculous lumping together of Saddam and Al Qaeda, what deception would Saddam have continued?

Didn't really intend to lump them in anything other than the ME region. Saddam would have been free of sanctions and would have headed right for the nearest arms merchants. As I mentioned, the Kurds would be toast soon afterwards. There would be several feints toward Iran trying to get them to do something foolish, and one of them would have succeeded - the Iran/Iraq war would rage. How do you think that would have affected the oil market?

[ninjalooter1701]

Originally Posted by clownboy

Didn't really intend to lump them in anything other than the ME region. Saddam would have been free of sanctions and would have headed right for the nearest arms merchants. As I mentioned, the Kurds would be toast soon afterwards. There would be several feints toward Iran trying to get them to do something foolish, and one of them would have succeeded - the Iran/Iraq war would rage. How do you think that would have affected the oil market?

Might have brought oil up to $80 per barrel.

So, Gore would have "freed" Saddam of all sanctions, you say? I say that is a faulty premise, which sends the rest of your argument into the void.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Would you really want a bloke as your President who was so crap he even lost an election to George W Bush ?