Damn? Ain't That Nice Of Us?

oldgator · #1 23rd December 2007, 07:31 PM

US: Turkey Has Right to Defend ItselfDec 23, 1:38 PM (ET)
By SINAN SALHEDDIN

(AP) Security volunteers check a car entering the primarily Sunni Azamiyah neighborhood of north...
Full Imagep {margin:12px 0px 0px 0px;}
BAGHDAD (AP) - Turkey has the right to defend itself against Kurdish rebels based in Iraq but must make sure it does not destabilize its neighbor, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq said Sunday.
Ryan Crocker made the remarks before news emerged that Turkey had bombed Kurdish rebel targets in northern Iraq on Sunday - for the third time in the past week. Turkish warplanes also bombed positions held by the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, on Saturday and on Dec. 16.
"We've been clear on this. The PKK is a terrorist organization, it has carried out a number of lethal actions in Turkey from bases in Iraq, and the Turks clearly have a right to defend their country and their people," Crocker told reporters in Baghdad. He made the comments as Turkish jets were bombing an area about 50 miles north of the city of Irbil near the border with Turkey for about an hour and a half.
More to the Story: http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D8TNANEG1.html

Jeronimo from Flanders · #2 23rd December 2007, 10:31 PM

PKK may use the wrong method for achieving their goal, but every people should have the right to have an own state.

oldgator · #3 24th December 2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeronimo from Flanders

PKK may use the wrong method for achieving their goal, but every people should have the right to have an own state.

And Unlike the Country Run by George W. (Warmonger) Bush, Countries or factions of a country should not shoot at other countries as the PKK has been doing to the Turks. Turkey, has been very patient with those Jerks and had decided to go on and kick the heck out of them.

Wasn't it nice of us to allow them to defend their own country?

Jeronimo from Flanders · #4 25th December 2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldgator

And Unlike the Country Run by George W. (Warmonger) Bush, Countries or factions of a country should not shoot at other countries as the PKK has been doing to the Turks. Turkey, has been very patient with those Jerks and had decided to go on and kick the heck out of them.

Wasn't it nice of us to allow them to defend their own country?

Off course every country has the right to defend itself, but if the Kurds can't get to their independence on a democratic way, because Turkey won't let them, it isn't more then normal that they go to more violant ways...

lily · #5 25th December 2007, 09:31 PM

If this was Iran.........wouldn't we be upset? Also, it was so very nice of Bush to put pressure on the senate so they wouldn't hold Turkey responsible for the genocide. It has worked out so well!

Mr. Amphibian · #6 26th December 2007, 01:15 AM

Iran is shelling 'Kurdish' territory in Iraq apparently to stop Kurdish terrorists. Yup, Iran is fighting the war on terror against Iraqis. Heh.

potter · #7 26th December 2007, 04:16 PM

As an occupying force isn't it OUR responsibility to keep order in Iraq? Are we going to allow any country with a beef to come along and use Iraq as it's whipping boy?

So much for Iraqi independence huh? When an occupying force can give permission to any country to come in and drop bombs at will.....

Jeronimo from Flanders · #8 26th December 2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

As an occupying force isn't it OUR responsibility to keep order in Iraq? Are we going to allow any country with a beef to come along and use Iraq as it's whipping boy?

So much for Iraqi independence huh? When an occupying force can give permission to any country to come in and drop bombs at will.....

So you think YOU are the world's police and other countries can't intervent if they are threatened?

potter · #9 26th December 2007, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeronimo from Flanders

So you think YOU are the world's police and other countries can't intervent if they are threatened?

Apparently so as Turkey obtained our permission before hand.....

But seriously, you're only supposed to attack countries that aren't a threat....like Iraq wasn't to us.....

SuffrinSuckatash · #10 27th December 2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeronimo from Flanders

Off course every country has the right to defend itself, but if the Kurds can't get to their independence on a democratic way, because Turkey won't let them, it isn't more then normal that they go to more violant ways...

You dont seem to know much about the position of Kurds in Turkey. Turks and Kurds have shared the same land for about 1000 years. Theyve intermarried, lived side by side and fought together. There are kurdish generals in the armed forces, theres been a kurdish prime minister and kurdish president. There are Kurds in the parliament. Identity papers identify everyone as citizens of turkey, nothing on there says "turk or kurd or laz" or any of several dozen ethnicities. There are roughly 12 million estimated kurds in Turkey, most living in the western part. Of these 12 million, 3000 are terrorists. If the situation of the kurds was so bad dont you think they would muster more than 3000 men? The PKK is a marxist-leninist terrorist group as recognized by the EU and the USA. On a side note Turkey has also had a female prime minister. When some of the so called liberal democracies in the west elect a black man or a woman or a mexican or a turk or arab as prime minister you might have a leg to stand on. There is no such thing as "all people should have a homeland" in this world of reality. Maybe id like to take my home and my family and declare independence from the USA? The question comes down to giving people that live in your country a fair shake and for the most part Turkey has done that. Kurds had some legitimate issues with not being able to get their language on TV etc but thats changing slowly. It would have happened a lot faster if they hadnt started an armed separatist terrorist war in 1984 that has claimed 30,000 lives of Turkish citizens. You can research yourself how this terrorist group operated in the 80s, even butchering kurds who would not support them, and extorting whole towns for funds, running drugs etc etc. Im an american of Turkish decent and I dont want independence from the USA, Im just happy to be considered an equal rights citizen under the constitution and to live my life in peace with my neighbors. My sisters married a german and a Hawaain, this is just a fact of life. Thats all the average human being wants in this world, left to mind his own business with equal treatment under the law.

Jeronimo from Flanders · #11 27th December 2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuffrinSuckatash

You dont seem to know much about the position of Kurds in Turkey. Turks and Kurds have shared the same land for about 1000 years. Theyve intermarried, lived side by side and fought together. There are kurdish generals in the armed forces, theres been a kurdish prime minister and kurdish president. There are Kurds in the parliament. Identity papers identify everyone as citizens of turkey, nothing on there says "turk or kurd or laz" or any of several dozen ethnicities. There are roughly 12 million estimated kurds in Turkey, most living in the western part. Of these 12 million, 3000 are terrorists. If the situation of the kurds was so bad dont you think they would muster more than 3000 men? The PKK is a marxist-leninist terrorist group as recognized by the EU and the USA. On a side note Turkey has also had a female prime minister. When some of the so called liberal democracies in the west elect a black man or a woman or a mexican or a turk or arab as prime minister you might have a leg to stand on. There is no such thing as "all people should have a homeland" in this world of reality. Maybe id like to take my home and my family and declare independence from the USA? The question comes down to giving people that live in your country a fair shake and for the most part Turkey has done that. Kurds had some legitimate issues with not being able to get their language on TV etc but thats changing slowly. It would have happened a lot faster if they hadnt started an armed separatist terrorist war in 1984 that has claimed 30,000 lives of Turkish citizens. You can research yourself how this terrorist group operated in the 80s, even butchering kurds who would not support them, and extorting whole towns for funds, running drugs etc etc. Im an american of Turkish decent and I dont want independence from the USA, Im just happy to be considered an equal rights citizen under the constitution and to live my life in peace with my neighbors. My sisters married a german and a Hawaain, this is just a fact of life. Thats all the average human being wants in this world, left to mind his own business with equal treatment under the law.

Auwch, I guess you are right...

lily · #12 27th December 2007, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuffrinSuckatash

You dont seem to know much about the position of Kurds in Turkey. Turks and Kurds have shared the same land for about 1000 years. Theyve intermarried, lived side by side and fought together. There are kurdish generals in the armed forces, theres been a kurdish prime minister and kurdish president. There are Kurds in the parliament. Identity papers identify everyone as citizens of turkey, nothing on there says "turk or kurd or laz" or any of several dozen ethnicities. There are roughly 12 million estimated kurds in Turkey, most living in the western part. Of these 12 million, 3000 are terrorists. If the situation of the kurds was so bad dont you think they would muster more than 3000 men? The PKK is a marxist-leninist terrorist group as recognized by the EU and the USA. On a side note Turkey has also had a female prime minister. When some of the so called liberal democracies in the west elect a black man or a woman or a mexican or a turk or arab as prime minister you might have a leg to stand on. There is no such thing as "all people should have a homeland" in this world of reality. Maybe id like to take my home and my family and declare independence from the USA? The question comes down to giving people that live in your country a fair shake and for the most part Turkey has done that. Kurds had some legitimate issues with not being able to get their language on TV etc but thats changing slowly. It would have happened a lot faster if they hadnt started an armed separatist terrorist war in 1984 that has claimed 30,000 lives of Turkish citizens. You can research yourself how this terrorist group operated in the 80s, even butchering kurds who would not support them, and extorting whole towns for funds, running drugs etc etc. Im an american of Turkish decent and I dont want independence from the USA, Im just happy to be considered an equal rights citizen under the constitution and to live my life in peace with my neighbors. My sisters married a german and a Hawaain, this is just a fact of life. Thats all the average human being wants in this world, left to mind his own business with equal treatment under the law.

That's nice and all.........but the Kurds are the only ones that have gotten their shit together in this whole mess. The Turks and the Kurds have been fighting for ages. What gives them the right, other than they want their land, to go on bombing raids, with apperantly US approval?

Quote:

There are kurdish generals in the armed forces, theres been a kurdish prime minister and kurdish president. There are Kurds in the parliament.

......and thery're fitting right in with the Sunni and Shia elected to parliment........sitting collecting an American paycheck and not doing a damned thing.

SuffrinSuckatash · #13 27th December 2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lily

That's nice and all.........but the Kurds are the only ones that have gotten their shit together in this whole mess. The Turks and the Kurds have been fighting for ages. What gives them the right, other than they want their land, to go on bombing raids, with apperantly US approval?.

This isnt a war between Kurds and Turks, this is a war between Turkey and a terrorist organization which has sanctuary in Iraq. Its really a very simple thing called self defense. May I ask what country you are from and your views on the invasion of Iraq by the USA?

Quote:

and thery're fitting right in with the Sunni and Shia elected to parliment........sitting collecting an American paycheck and not doing a damned thing.

Could you elaborate on this statement? Are you referring to the Kurds Sunnis and Shia in Iraqs parliament or the turkish parliament?

lily · #14 27th December 2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuffrinSuckatash

This isnt a war between Kurds and Turks, this is a war between Turkey and a terrorist organization which has sanctuary in Iraq. Its really a very simple thing called self defense.

Yes, I know that.........but what you aren't understanding is they are disrupting one of the few cities that actually have peace. They have no business bombing the Kurds in Iraq.....the PKK is a problem, but it seems we already have tons of soldiers in Iraq to fight the "terrorists". This is a land grab and nothing more.

Quote:

May I ask what country you are from and your views on the invasion of Iraq by the USA?

I'm really not sure what country I'm from has to do with me having an opinion on this subject, but I'm from the USA.

I am against the war in Iraq.

SuffrinSuckatash · #15 27th December 2007, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lily

Yes, I know that.........but what you aren't understanding is they are disrupting one of the few cities that actually have peace. They have no business bombing the Kurds in Iraq.....the PKK is a problem, but it seems we already have tons of soldiers in Iraq to fight the "terrorists". This is a land grab and nothing more.

I'm really not sure what country I'm from has to do with me having an opinion on this subject, but I'm from the USA.

I am against the war in Iraq.

You are ill informed about Turkey and the situation in northern Iraq. Turkey bombed PKK bases, not the Kurds at large. I dont see how you concluded this is a land grab by Turkey since airplanes cant take and hold land. Yes there are US soldiers in Iraq "fighting terror" and turkey practically begged them to take action against the PKK for over a year but nothing was done. If your neighbors kid comes into your house and kills someone in your family, you expect the police to do something about it. If they dont you have a reasonable right to go to your neighbors house and put a stop to that kid, youre not gonna stop and say oh but their house is so peaceful and his parents get along so well.

BTW did you agree with the US/Nato invasion of Afghanistan?

Jeronimo from Flanders · #16 27th December 2007, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuffrinSuckatash

You are ill informed about Turkey and the situation in northern Iraq. Turkey bombed PKK bases, not the Kurds at large. I dont see how you concluded this is a land grab by Turkey since airplanes cant take and hold land. Yes there are US soldiers in Iraq "fighting terror" and turkey practically begged them to take action against the PKK for over a year but nothing was done. If your neighbors kid comes into your house and kills someone in your family, you expect the police to do something about it. If they dont you have a reasonable right to go to your neighbors house and put a stop to that kid, youre not gonna stop and say oh but their house is so peaceful and his parents get along so well.

BTW did you agree with the US/Nato invasion of Afghanistan?

Why do you think the US should be "the police"?

SuffrinSuckatash · #17 27th December 2007, 10:26 PM

I dont think they should be the police, I was against the Iraq war but the reality is the US chose that role and is under the geneva conventions responsible for Iraq now. As Colin Powell put it, you break it you bought it. If a terrorist force uses iraq as a base, the US is bound by Law to put a stop to it. Let me ask you what I asked Lily, what do you think of the US/Nato invasion of afghanistan?

Jeronimo from Flanders · #18 27th December 2007, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuffrinSuckatash

I dont think they should be the police, I was against the Iraq war but the reality is the US chose that role and is under the geneva conventions responsible for Iraq now. As Colin Powell put it, you break it you bought it. If a terrorist force uses iraq as a base, the US is bound by Law to put a stop to it. Let me ask you what I asked Lily, what do you think of the US/Nato invasion of afghanistan?

I haven't got anything against it. Afghanistan is (or was), by my opinion, a threat to peace. Iraq wasn't, they were just to dangerous for the "chosen people" in Israël...

SuffrinSuckatash · #19 27th December 2007, 10:44 PM

Personally I dont really buy that blame israel stuff, I think it had much more to do with control of oil supplies, but in any case. You see my point now, we invaded Afghanistan because it was justified, they were harboring and training a terrorist force. Some argued back then that the taliban had brought peace and law and order to afghanistan after two decades of war but we had the legal right to go in, just as Turkey has a legal right to defend itself.

Jeronimo from Flanders · #20 27th December 2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuffrinSuckatash

Personally I dont really buy that blame israel stuff, I think it had much more to do with control of oil supplies, but in any case. You see my point now, we invaded Afghanistan because it was justified, they were harboring and training a terrorist force. Some argued back then that the taliban had brought peace and law and order to afghanistan after two decades of war but we had the legal right to go in, just as Turkey has a legal right to defend itself.

As I see it there is a different motive behind the Taliban and the PKK, the Taliban are terrorists, while I wouldn't call the PKK terrorists...