Obama vs. McCain as change agents

[Justin]

Obama vs. McCain as change agents
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080908...cAJZhlp6P9wxIF

After two weeks of back-to-back political conventions, the country knows this much: Change trumped experience as the mantra of both campaigns. Experience marched up the hill as a theme, but didn't capture the flag. And yet, as professed standard-bearers of change, the candidates still lack a certain amount of credibility.

Let's start with Democrat Barack Obama. While his election would mark a historic change as the first black American in the White House, his 2008 convention speech didn't measure up, especially against his 2004 debut as that convention's keynote speaker.

Four years ago, the fresh face from Illinois rejected the politics of division and the peddlers of negative ads. "Tonight," he said back then, "there is not a liberal America and a conservative America: There is the United States of America."

But Mr. Obama's unconventionality turned conventional under the warm sky and even warmer reception of the party faithful in Denver.

He front-loaded his speech with partisan red meat (most Americans are unhappy with the country's direction; tell them something they don't know). He stooped to mischaracterize his opponent (John McCain's definition of the middle class as people earning less than $5 million had been made in jest; the bit about Mr. McCain not going to the cave of Osama bin Laden was a cheap shot.)

And Obama laid out a fairly standard Democratic policy agenda – though he encouragingly detoured to middle ground on such culture-cleaving issues as abortion and guns.

In St. Paul, Minn., on the other hand, McCain flew solo by delivering a speech notable for its relative lack of attack on his opponent, for its admission of party mistakes and promise of reform, and for McCain's stated intention to reach across the aisle. His track record backs him up on the latter point.
But what does McCain mean by change? Sensation Sarah Palin broke the gender barrier in a big way, but her staunchly social conservative credentials make her most appealing to GOP voters.

Will McCain's reforms go broader than the narrow fight against pork-barrel spending? His recited policy fare, like Obama's, differed little from the party menu. And McCain's above-the-fray tone contrasted sharply with the piercing party machinery that whirred over the previous days, including Ms. Palin's unnecessarily sarcastic searing of Obama. It also contrasted with his campaign to date, which has relied heavily on negative ads. Boring in on Obama's celebrity status was just silly.

Neither candidate is your average politician. One senses their sincerity in wanting to do things differently in Washington. Perhaps the question is whether they can resist forces and traditions within their parties that would prevent them from rising above partisanship.

Political conventions by nature draw the hard core, and seem unlikely launching pads for anything unconventional beyond stagecraft. But nearly 39 million viewers saw these speeches – among them, independents with no taste for red meat or the daily party special.

As the candidates enter the final phase, they will have to do a more convincing job that they're not just talkers, but doers, of change.

[sinterest]

Neither candidate is your average politician. One senses their sincerity in wanting to do things differently in Washington. Perhaps the question is whether they can resist forces and traditions within their parties that would prevent them from rising above partisanship.

Amen to that.
Give Obama cudos for trying, but when McCain turned totally negative (dispite his promises), he steadily gained in the polls.
I'm pretty disgusted, not with the two candidates but rather, the media and the gullible American public. The American public of whom half don't vote while the other half vote against their best interests as they all too often base their choices on trivial issues in a relative sense.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by sinterest

I'm pretty disgusted, not with the two candidates but rather, the media and the gullible American public. The American public of whom half don't vote while the other half vote against their best interests as they all too often base their choices on trivial issues in a relative sense.

I'm less disgusted with the media as I am with the public.

Ultimately they are the ones responsible.

If they refused to swallow the shit, the Politicans and the Media would have no choice but to quit dishing it up.

[Underhill]

Originally Posted by sinterest

Amen to that.
Give Obama cudos for trying, but when McCain turned totally negative (dispite his promises), he steadily gained in the polls.
I'm pretty disgusted, not with the two candidates but rather, the media and the gullible American public. The American public of whom half don't vote while the other half vote against their best interests as they all too often base their choices on trivial issues in a relative sense.

Exactly right.

This whole debate about change is stupid. The whole thing about McCain being a maverick comes from what exactly? He's worked with democrats on a few bills related to finance reform (which have been abject failures) but other than that what has he done? Obama worked on a similar type of bill.

McCain has been a part of Washington for decades, then claims he is an agent for change? It's obviously bullshit. But people like the idea of lower taxes (even if it's a fraud) they like the idea of no abortion (even if it's bad for women and the country) they like the idea of no sex ed (even if it means more teen pregnancy) and they like the idea of smaller goverment because they've watched a republican goverment fuck them for the last 8 years.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Underhill

Exactly right.

This whole debate about change is stupid. The whole thing about McCain being a maverick comes from what exactly? He's worked with democrats on a few bills related to finance reform (which have been abject failures) but other than that what has he done? Obama worked on a similar type of bill.

McCain has been a part of Washington for decades, then claims he is an agent for change? It's obviously bullshit. But people like the idea of lower taxes (even if it's a fraud) they like the idea of no abortion (even if it's bad for women and the country) they like the idea of no sex ed (even if it means more teen pregnancy) and they like the idea of smaller goverment because they've watched a republican goverment fuck them for the last 8 years.

I liked McCain in 2000. Still have a McCain 2000 T- shirt in my closet. I think he really wanted to change Washington. That's why the right wing Republicans hated him so much back then.

McCain 2008 is different. He wants to be President so bad he'll do anything. He's had to make a lot of Faustian bargans with the right to get the nomination.

Now he's trying to pull a switch and run as McCain 2000. The right wingers hate that, but they are keeping their mouths shut and going along with it because they know it's their only chance. Plus they probably think they can control him if he gets in.

So if he wins which McCain is going to show up on Jan. 20th? McCain 2000, or McCain 2008? I don't have a clue and I don't think McCain does either.

[sinterest]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

McCain 2008 is different. He wants to be President so bad he'll do anything. He's had to make a lot of Faustian bargans with the right to get the nomination.

Now he's trying to pull a switch and run as McCain 2000. The right wingers hate that, but they are keeping their mouths shut and going along with it because they know it's their only chance. Plus they probably think they can control him if he gets in.

So if he wins which McCain is going to show up on Jan. 20th? McCain 2000, or McCain 2008? I don't have a clue and I don't think McCain does either.

Since I think his election is inevitable, I just hope and pray (to my god Ralph) that the McCain of 2000 will emerge and take charge.
My number one fear is that he is losing his mental facilities. He's seems pitiful to me standing slightly behind Palin's skirt, fidgeting with his wedding band, forcing a timid grin and weakly waving to the crowd from time to time as if to say, “hey, I'm here too”.



I remember when in the all important South Carolina race in 2000, he nervously read from a hand held note, that he approved of the “rebel flag” flying over their State House. It was so obviously a move that his handlers forced him to do. He later admitted that he felt ashamed for that sell out.



If per chance, his brain is functioning sharply (it would have to be far better than mine at 69) perhaps he will in essence apologize and work with the Dems on the Hill for the good of us all.