Racial ugliness, nationwide

[Zan de Man]

That's one American and an Irishman. Hardly a movement. I condemn them both. Do you condemn the racists who are threatening Obama's life?

[Black Lance]

Originally Posted by ninjalooter1701

Remember when your fellow conservatives talked about Hitlery?



Both of them are not racists.

Ninja, if you want me to place you on ignore, please stop responding to my posts.

[suedanim]

Wonder how much money it took to get that little kid to read that script. How old is he... 8 years old? Get out. Hope that wasn't supposed to be a legitimate example.

Look... no doubt the nutjobs abound in the US. And I've never expressed anything but condemnation for threats against any CIC. You won't find a quote from me otherwise. If so... I'll kiss your ass for a half-second.


Death threats for Bush and those for Obama... apples and oranges. Seriously stupid to even compare. Bush started an unnecessary war resulting in hundreds of thousands of innocent dead. Obama ran for and won the Presidency. duh George Bush ignored the aftermath of Katrina for days. Obama is so popular in the US and around the world, people were crying and cheering in crowds, lying on the ground weeping in joy at his election to CIC. Same? NOT.

The Secret Service has declared a much higher incidence of threats towards Obama than any other CIC. The reasons are extremist partisans on the right, racist hatred and Palin and McCain's hate speeches inciting fear, fostering ignorance and driving hatred among those already drawing bullseyes on Obama.

Thats pretty much end all of it. And where Palin and McCain have left off... Limbaugh, Liddy, Hannity and Savage carry the torch forward. Its pure verbicide, a poisonous cancer. I believe McCain and Palin should come forward and publically denounce the rightwing pundits for that kind of language and call for all on the right to cease the hate.

McCain did try to calm things down, but Palin kept it going and even after the election invoked Ayers again. But what can anyone expect from an empty vessel such as she? The sooner she is marginalized the better, imo.

[LiberalNation]

There would be threats against obama had palin or mccain never ran or said a word.It's stupid to blame them for it. Extremist that can't stand a black prez could have cared less what they said or didn't.

In good news, if he does get killed in office he'll be made a martyer and lots more famous and noteworthy. Probably even get that holiday.

[suedanim]

Originally Posted by LiberalNation

There would be threats against obama had palin or mccain never ran or said a word.It's stupid to blame them for it. Extremist that can't stand a black prez could have cared less what they said or didn't.

In good news, if he does get killed in office he'll be made a martyer and lots more famous and noteworthy. Probably even get that holiday.

Good grief. Thats just about the most flippant, callous set of remarks I've ever read from you LN.

Palin played a HUGE role in ratcheting up the hate and ignorance, btw. She followed right behind that racist antisemetic piece of shit Andy Martin and his partner in outrageous stupidity, Jerome Corsi.

[clownboy]

Originally Posted by clownboy
Nope, I'm saying the McCain/Palin ticket spoke to that minority in the party and allowed them to have a dominant voice.

Originally Posted by Black Lance

Clownboy, what exactly did the McCain/Palin campaign do that was racist?

Look again at what I wrote, I didn't say they were racist, they encouraged racism and gave it a voice, a dominant voice in the crowd. That's the first time in a long time that a republican ticket has allowed that. Republican candidates up to and including Bush have tried to remove those voices from their sphere and actively solicited minority voters. Not to say they haven't used targetted radio ads in local precincts, but those were always disavowed by the national campaigns when they reached the light of day.

But McCain/Palin went all mavericky on us and blew off anyone of color, choosing instead to rely upon fear to bring in the base. The only non-whites at the RNC convention this time were the off the street paid seat fillers and the CNN reporters.

[Dufrel]

Originally Posted by suedanim

And I've never expressed anything but condemnation for threats against any CIC. You won't find a quote from me otherwise. If so... I'll kiss your ass for a half-second.

Ok, but with your next breath you went on to give reasons why Bush was justified in getting death threats.

Bush started an unnecessary war resulting in hundreds of thousands of innocent dead... George Bush ignored the aftermath of Katrina for days... Same? NOT.

Certainly sounds like making excuses and not condemnation to me.

[SCREAM]

Originally Posted by Zan de Man

That's one American and an Irishman. Hardly a movement. I condemn them both. Do you condemn the racists who are threatening Obama's life?

Did you read my post before that one in this very same thread?

[donquixote99]

Certainly sounds like making excuses and not condemnation to me.

Yep. If one condemns death threats, just how is the fact that one can cite reasons for not liking one target relevant? Is this an attempt to argue that the people who threaten Obama are worse than the people who have threatened Bush?

The fact that there is a spate of threats against Obama is data. Now, what do we think it means?

[suedanim]

Originally Posted by Dufrel

Ok, but with your next breath you went on to give reasons why Bush was justified in getting death threats.

Bullshit... I was not justifying the death threats and you know damn well I wasn't. Theres a difference between justifying and explaining why some might have wanted to take it to that level.

Obama, otoh, has merely won an election and combined with assorted unfounded smears and accusations has earned the highest numbers of threats of any CIC.

Certainly sounds like making excuses and not condemnation to me.

Again... total bullshit. But, of course... you will intentionally read into it a more diabolical interpretation than I intended. It behooves your arguments that I am extreme partisan, while you are the objective observer, which is also bullshit. Really tiresome Dufrel...

[suedanim]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Yep. If one condemns death threats, just how is the fact that one can cite reasons for not liking one target relevant? Is this an attempt to argue that the people who threaten Obama are worse than the people who have threatened Bush?

First of all... I did not bring Bush into this discussion. Your rightwing friend Lance-whatever did that comparison for us to divert the conversation away from the topic and make it about poor, oppressed and legacy-deprived George fuckn Bush.

I was not citing my reasons for not liking Bush, but reasons certain nutjobs among us might take it to that level and comparing that to Obama, whose primary sin has been to win the CIC election while black.

I really do wish the right would try not to twist shit up.

The fact that there is a spate of threats against Obama is data. Now, what do we think it means?

We think it means there are a whole lotta racist sonsabitches out there who do not want a black First Family in the White House...and that the whole of the McCain campaign strategy was to play on their ignorance, racist hatred and fear that black people are rising up to take over the whole world!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJPFSNu_QNs

[Zan de Man]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The fact that there is a spate of threats against Obama is data. Now, what do we think it means?

What I think it means is that there are still racists around, in a minority, but in sufficient numbers to be a real threat to a black president, and one factor in their bold emergency was the McCain/Palin campaign, which used disreputable tactics to smear Obama as "other" and a terrorist fellow-traveller, the latter of which can now be used by racists to justify their vitriol.

I observe that some posters here are trying to argue that this is simply the downside of his blackness which they are trying to argue was the sole factor that won him the election. It wasn't. He was manifestly the steadiest candidate with the best analysis of the issues facing America at home and in the world. He was calming them down while McCain and Palin were whipping them up.

Their shocking campaign was not the only factor at play, but, having sown the wind, they'd better hope that they don't reap the whirlwind.

[ninjalooter1701]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The fact that there is a spate of threats against Obama is data. Now, what do we think it means?

Is that a rhetorical question, much like this one is?

Do you think that they are finding more threats just because of ease of data gathering?

[Black Lance]

Originally Posted by Zan de Man

Since you insist.

Let's examine that. Bush introduced the Patriot Act, which removed basic liberties from American citizens, including freedom of movement and privacy. He also gave authority for the detention without trial and torture of foreign prisoners.

Now I never compared him to Hitler and I laugh at those who did, but I would describe those actions as politically extreme. And those who described him as being like Hitler were not calling for his assassination. Even if they had, there is no tradition in the US of lynching Nazis.

Your honor, I motion to dismiss. Even if all of the above were true, my point still holds. Comparing Bush to Hitler was absurd, and liberals did not protest such comparisons when they were made against Bush.

I can answer that. He was a puppet for the big corporations for most of his presidency. But what does that have to do with accusing Obama of being a friend of terrorist[s]?

Nothing, it parallels with Palin accusing Obama of experimenting with socialism.

Bush is a stooge for big business, Obama is a socialist...

Didn't they get flown out of the country? Weren't they in business with the Bush family?

Yes, and a small number of liberals used this fact to suggest Bush orchestrated 9/11.

The better answer to Sue's complaint of guilty by association, however, is the often repeated liberal accusation that Bush stole the Flordia 2000 election because his brother was governor of Florida.

Yep. It was all the media's fault.

The media gave McCain the opening, but him and his campaign staff decided to take it. And, at least compared to suggesting Obama is a socialist, there was more merit in this accusation than many others that were tossed about during the campaign. Obama did in fact recieve star treatment from the media, and this continues in the present.

Well I would have denounced them if I'd ever heard of them. Was there a huge spate of them after he was elected? Like the death threats Obama's now facing? Do you condemn them?

Yes and yes. There were numerous death threats against Bush after the election (omg Bush stole de' election it's the end of democracy!!1) and there were more as his administration began to suck. I cannot recall Sue ever denouncing any of these, although she may not approve of them.

I will repeat this, yet again: I do NOT want Obama to be assasinated. If some racist succeeds in killing Obama it would be the biggest disaster since 9/11. It would be wose than the Kennedy assasination.

[Black Lance]

Originally Posted by Zan de Man

I didn't say that.

But the left has, and does. In fact, one of our esteemed moderators here on P&CA repeated this claim recently.

I'm certain there are plenty of racists on both sides - and none.

And there are Republicans on this board whom I respect. None of them are racists. However, it's a convenient cloak for you to hide behind.

My statements on race relations on this board have always consisted of two themes:

1: Racism is bad.

2: Liberal racism is more prevelant and also bad.

Your conclusion that I hate black people is based on which of the above ideas?

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by suedanim

First of all... I did not bring Bush into this discussion. Your rightwing friend Lance-whatever did that comparison for us to divert the conversation away from the topic and make it about poor, oppressed and legacy-deprived George fuckn Bush.

I was not citing my reasons for not liking Bush, but reasons certain nutjobs among us might take it to that level and comparing that to Obama, whose primary sin has been to win the CIC election while black.

I really do wish the right would try not to twist shit up.

We think it means there are a whole lotta racist sonsabitches out there who do not want a black First Family in the White House...and that the whole of the McCain campaign strategy was to play on their ignorance, racist hatred and fear that black people are rising up to take over the whole world!!

What's in that video?

What do you think should be done about the "whole lotta racist sonsabitches?"

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Zan de Man

What I think it means is that there are still racists around, in a minority, but in sufficient numbers to be a real threat to a black president, and one factor in their bold emergency was the McCain/Palin campaign, which used disreputable tactics to smear Obama as "other" and a terrorist fellow-traveller, the latter of which can now be used by racists to justify their vitriol.

I observe that some posters here are trying to argue that this is simply the downside of his blackness which they are trying to argue was the sole factor that won him the election. It wasn't. He was manifestly the steadiest candidate with the best analysis of the issues facing America at home and in the world. He was calming them down while McCain and Palin were whipping them up.

Their shocking campaign was not the only factor at play, but, having sown the wind, they'd better hope that they don't reap the whirlwind.

No argument, except I'm sort of left with the same question for you as for Sue. Like, is there some thought of retribution in the phrase 'they'd better hope?'

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by ninjalooter1701

Is that a rhetorical question, much like this one is?

Do you think that they are finding more threats just because of ease of data gathering?

No.

And my question was not rhetorical. I like to analyze things, with as much clarity as I can manage. Basically, I was searching for something here beyond 'aren't Republicans awful?'