Not enough experience? - or just what we need.

[sinterest]

In Washington, "lack of experience" really means a lack of having been inculcated into the nasty corrupt way one has had to suck up to the entrenched corporate control (K-street) and a hand full of other power groups (not the least of which, the one that Eisenhower warned us easy to dupe “patriots” about).

I suppose that the newer term is, “Behavior modification”, however, I still prefer “Brainwashed”.

I say bravo! Hence, he's capable and likely to find fresher, less indoctrinated people; “people of the people” to advise this very smart articulate man who has the charisma and chutzpa to be a constructive leader/statesman to really remodel our deadlocked system plunging toward catastrophe, unless there is major "change" soon.

Will he resist them, remain steadfast to his vision of actually working for the public. I hope he does even if it means he loses this go round.

[toolman846]

Who do you want operating on you - the brain surgeon doing his first operation, or the one doing his 500th?

[Neko]

Depends whether he screwed up the other 499...

[bunkum]

!!!!

[Gilles de Rais]

What Bunkum said !!!

[toolman846]

[potter]

Originally Posted by toolman846

Who do you want operating on you - the brain surgeon doing his first operation, or the one doing his 500th?

That doesn't apply, you are comparing a highly technical operation to issues of common sense and judgement.

As far as washington goes, the further removed from the corrupt "good old boy" network they are, the better I feel about them. Decades of "experience" have gotten us in the mess we have today. And I've seen nowhere where "experience" in washington makes anything good happen.

You cant' teach an old dog new tricks, and we desperately need a new trick.

[Underhill]

Originally Posted by potter

That doesn't apply, you are comparing a highly technical operation to issues of common sense and judgement.

As far as washington goes, the further removed from the corrupt "good old boy" network they are, the better I feel about them. Decades of "experience" have gotten us in the mess we have today. And I've seen nowhere where "experience" in washington makes anything good happen.

You cant' teach an old dog new tricks, and we desperately need a new trick.

Exactly right.

[sinterest]

Originally Posted by toolman846

Who do you want operating on you - the brain surgeon doing his first operation, or the one doing his 500th?

If you do not understand my post, I suggest you, my friend Jim, are the one who needs "brain" help.

[austinlacey]

Barracks problem will be his idealism. I would love to see change, but thats not going to happen with the house and senate entrenched in their good ole boy dogma of keeping everything status quo.

Hillary would know how to work with whats there. I will be happy if either one is elected over McCain, but I don't think anything will change for a few years until either Hillary gets Bill pulling strings, or Barrack learns how to work the house and senate.

[Neko]

I dunno, I might believe that the freshness etc. were there if he was 20, but I can't believe he's got to the age he is in politics without accomodating himself to the system.

I guess where he's really struck lucky is that he fits in with the zeitgeist - pragmatic but wholesome, like Blair once was. Hillary's negative campaigning would probably have been the height of nowness about 10 years ago, but these days it's like she's trying to sell us VHS machines as the latest technology. The world has passed her by.

[sinterest]

Originally Posted by potter

That doesn't apply, you are comparing a highly technical operation to issues of common sense and judgement.

As far as washington goes, the further removed from the corrupt "good old boy" network they are, the better I feel about them. Decades of "experience" have gotten us in the mess we have today. And I've seen nowhere where "experience" in washington makes anything good happen.

You cant' teach an old dog new tricks, and we desperately need a new trick.

Right on Pot man.

Jim ain't "the sharpest spoon in the drawer" sometimes and has to resort to hillary/McCain talking points.

[Neko]

Actually, that Blair comparison isn't very good, so I'd like to change it. After all, everyone could see Blair spinning like mad, but it was the style at the time, so we were all totally into it. Obama's more like Cameron (though I get the impression that Cameron actually thought about his strategy, while Obama just sort of drifted into his). It's like post-spin, so slick you can't see it. Look at the man's Charlie Brownish little face and earnest haircut - so very 2008.

[Gilles de Rais]

Originally Posted by sinterest

Jim ain't "the sharpest spoon in the drawer" sometimes and has to resort to hillary/McCain talking points.

That's twice in one thread. While Jim is perfectly capable of defending himself and dishing it out too, i think that's, again, is a bit "too close to the wind" for my taste.

Can we carry on without impuning on each other's intellect?

[sarmajor]

I dunno, I might believe that the freshness etc. were there if he was 20, but I can't believe he's got to the age he is in politics without accomodating himself to the system.

Neko . the underlying fact of life is that he (or any other Presidential aspirant) is nothing without the machine - which is beholden to the faceless and powerful clique that provides the millions of dollars to run their campaigns.

The whole electoral system is corrupt beyond measure and the candidates - of whatever political persuasion - have no option other than to deliver their paymaster's bidding.

The whole razzle dazzle connected with the campaigns is only a circus provided to fool the great unwashed (those that even bother) into believing that their vote has some meaning.

All that happens every 4 or 8 years is to rearrange the deck chairs on that Titanic ship of state.

The French faced that problem late in the 18th century, the Russians in the early twentieth as subsequently did the Germans, the Austrians and the Italians.

Who knows whatsimilar crisis will augment drastic change to the status quo in the United States and lead them in another direction.

Obama, Clinton and McCain all have excess baggage to carry and none appear to have the means of uniting mainstream America.

Just as minor examples

Obama is black - a big deal in many parts of America - which is far from crossing (in one generation) its racial divides and although he talks the talk he has shown that, to date, he has not walked the walk.

Clinton is a women (almost as big a crime to many redneck Americans as is race) and is tainted with various financial scandals directed at both her husband and herself.

McCain is strongly pro Iraq (a very devisive position to take - especially in the light of past events) and he is yesterday's man.

Apart from the above there are many other hurdles which each one has to cross.

Can anyone really pick a statesman/stateswoman out of those three political hacks.

Pity that Rice was not standing in lieu of McCain as it would be interesting to see if she could carry the trifecta of being both black, a woman and even more tainted with Iraq.

[sinterest]

Originally Posted by Neko

I dunno, I might believe that the freshness etc. were there if he was 20, but I can't believe he's got to the age he is in politics without accomodating himself to the system.

I guess where he's really struck lucky is that he fits in with the zeitgeist - pragmatic but wholesome, like Blair once was. Hillary's negative campaigning would probably have been the height of nowness about 10 years ago, but these days it's like she's trying to sell us VHS machines as the latest technology. The world has passed her by.

Well said. Poor Blair fell in a bush sho nuf!

She has seemed to morph into a fantastic candidate lately though; (forgetting the tactics used by her surrogates).
I still think that the best chance for a Democratic victory is a Hillary led ticket with Obama VP. I believe this only because of our system where the unknown unaffiliated groups will bring the overwhelming majority of closet racists and the Guru type super rednecks out in droves.



All the while, McCain will implore the 527s to stop their nasty hateful crap ads as he giggles with these power brokers on his way to the White house.

Bush deplored the "swift-boaters" just as McCain will be outraged at ads featuring members of Barack's church swearing they saw Obama not only in church that Sunday, but standing up and applauding.

It should be much cheaper than bribing once good soldiers to lie about their former comrades.

[toolman846]

"If you do not understand my post, I suggest you, my friend Jim, are the one who needs "brain" help."

I understood your post perfectly, sinterest. You think a new face and fresh ideas, combined with hutzpah and charisma, can turn this ship of state around before it crashes on the rocks. I don't think you understood my reply. While I don't think the current crop of so-called "leaders" in DC is fit to lead a horse to water, I also don't think bravado and bravura make up for experience, particularly in these times. We don't have the luxury of mistakes, either in quality or quantity, today. The world is not the forgiving place it was decades ago. Slip up now, and you lose body parts. And unlike chameleons, we can't grow them back. Legions of vultures are patiently waiting, watching for any sign of weakness, to hove in and try and take a bite out of us. And the "He's the new kid on the block, so let's give him a break to start out with", shit isn't going to go very far. Sorry, I prefer someone with a little more experience over someone who think's HE'S got the balls and brains to "wing it", and make out. Just because he ISN'T one of the Beltway Insiders, doesn't give him any more cache, in my book, than those already on the inside, and probably a lot less. "Trust me, I've got the answrr." Remember what happened the LAST time we listened to that line of shit? I'll take the older captain, who's been here before, and has at least some vague idea of where the hell the rocks ARE, to start with. Does that mean I'd vote for Clinton over Obama, were that the choice? IN A HEARTBEAT! Does that mean I think she's the best and brightest, to lead us out of this mess? NOT ON YOUR TINTYPE! Do the last two answers mean I think there's ANYONE currently running, who's the right person for the job? NO!

"That's twice in one thread. While Jim is perfectly capable of defending himself and dishing it out too, i think that's, again, is a bit "too close to the wind" for my taste.

Can we carry on without impuning on each other's intellect?"

Jesus Christ, Gilles, stop following me around, trying to wipe my ass for me. My mother died in 1992, and she quit hovering over me years before that. As you point out, I can take care of myself. And as I pointed out before, this is a discussion forum, not a sewing circle. I don't think anybody here is expecting "please" and "thank you". If you want to sanitize this place to the point of idiocy, let me know right now, so I can begin the process of finding a new forum, where people actually express thoughts and opinions, and expect the same in return. If I was so thin-skinned as you think I am, I'd have died years ago. I once had the pleasure of the acquaintance of a Teamster's Union negotiator. You probably wouldn't have liked his methods either. If I had curled up and died every time someone had called me "stupid", or worse, I wouldn't have made it to age five.

[sinterest]

Originally Posted by Gilles de Rais

That's twice in one thread. While Jim is perfectly capable of defending himself and dishing it out too, i think that's, again, is a bit "too close to the wind" for my taste.

Can we carry on without impuning on each other's intellect?

Good point. Well taken.
I am too often more interested in being funny than other more important considerations.
My sincere apogogies to Jim.

[toolman846]

Don't sweat the small stuff, sinterest. I wasn't offended in the least. I'd only be offended if I thought you were pulling your punches, because you thought I'd be offended. I think you and I have known each other long enough you can tell it to me like it is, and expect me to do the same. some day perhpas you and i will get the chance to meet in person, and complare life noe. I think that'd be an interesting conversation. And I've been known to lack a certain degree of willpower when confronted with a tempting lead-in line, myself. Abnybody who doesn't know that about me hasn't been here very long.

In the meantime, just pretend I'm WAY thicker-skinned than some people think I am. Because I am.

[toolman846]

Besides, it's my son's 23rd birthday today, and the list of things ANYBODY could say to piss me off, or wreck my day, is a single-digit number. And real low, too.