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Old 14th July 2009, 06:20 AM
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Default (At Last) Britain Stands up to be Counted
Britain punishes Israel for Gaza naval bombardment

By Donald Macintyre in Jerusalem

Tuesday, 14 July 2009

AFP/GETTY

The British Government has reacted to Israel's bombardment and invasion of Gaza last January by barring further exports of components used in naval gunships which took part in the three-week operation.

Britain has officially told Israel's embassy in London that it is revoking five licences for exports of equipment used in Saar 4.5 vessels because they violate UK and EU criteria precluding military sales which could be used for "internal repression".

Israel used naval vessels to bombard Gaza targets from the Mediterranean to augment the ground and air offensive after Operation Cast Lead was launched against Hamas on 27 December last year. David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, told the Commons in April that there were "credible" reports that the Saar-class Corvette vessels had been used in "a naval fire support role".

The Saar vessels' 76mm guns are almost certain to have used British-made components because the Government had previously granted export licences specifically for them. It had also allowed exports of cabling for Saar-class ships and also components for radar which Mr Miliband acknowledged could be used for "fire control against surface targets" as well as its primary role in air defence.

The cancellation of the five licences follows a review started by the UK Government three months ago, in the aftermath of the Israeli offensive, of the 182 licences currently in force for arms exports to Israel.

The Israeli military acknowledges killing 1,166 Palestinians during the offensive, including at least 295 civilians, 49 of them women and 89 of them children under 16. Palestinian and other human rights groups put the total killed at up to 1,417, with a much higher proportion of civilians.

The revoked licences appear to involve the only military equipment directly exported from the UK to Israel identified as having been used during Operation Cast Lead. But Mr Miliband acknowledged in April that other British-made components had also been exported to US manufacturers of military equipment that was subsequently sold on to Israel.

These included equipment for the avionics systems – specifically cockpit display units – for F16 aircraft, widely used during Operation Cast Lead for aerial bombing of targets in Gaza.

They also included parts used in the fire control systems of Apache helicopters, as well as navigation units and engine assemblies. Apaches were also regularly used in lethal air attacks during the Gaza operation.

There was a row in the British Cabinet at the peak of the Palestinian intifada during 2002 over the export of F16 avionic components. But although the then Blair government barred direct sales of F16 components to Israel, it continued to license the sale of parts to the US manufacturers on the grounds that it would disrupt Anglo-US relations not to do so.

Richard Burden, chairman of the Britain Palestine All-Party Commons Group, yesterday welcomed the decision to revoke the Saar licences and Mr Miliband's April announcement of a review of "all extant" military export licences in the light of Operation Cast Lead.

But he added that the criteria needed to be applied to indirect exports as well. "The vast majority of arms imports to Israel come from the US and unless any new policy addresses that issue it will simply not be effective."

Britain punishes Israel for Gaza naval bombardment - Middle East, World - The Independent
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Old 14th July 2009, 08:24 AM
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They weren't being counted before? Or it just wasn't in following your dogma so their actions previous to this didn't count as such?
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Old 14th July 2009, 08:30 AM
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They weren't being counted before? Or it just wasn't in following your dogma so their actions previous to this didn't count as such?
What dogma would that be?
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Old 14th July 2009, 09:51 AM
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I believe this to be a good decision on Britains behalf. We should not support states that continually represses a people.

Unfortunately, with Britains record of violating numerous arms embargoes, mostly through nefarious means, I don't think this new policy will make much difference.
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Old 14th July 2009, 04:53 PM
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What dogma would that be?
I don't know. But that's the only way in which I could imagine the phrase "stands up to be counted" regarding a shift in policy could be coherently used.
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Old 14th July 2009, 05:00 PM
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What dogma would that be?
Had to do it didn't you?

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Old 14th July 2009, 06:28 PM
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I don't know. But that's the only way in which I could imagine the phrase "stands up to be counted" regarding a shift in policy could be coherently used.
I don't see it as a shift in policy.

Arms Trade Treaty (ATT)
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Old 14th July 2009, 08:19 PM
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Obama barks Brown wags his tail
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Old 14th July 2009, 08:24 PM
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Obama barks Brown wags his tail
Hardly. This is much further than the US has gone.
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Old 15th July 2009, 05:02 AM
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I don't see it as a shift in policy.

Arms Trade Treaty (ATT)
You don't? Then what, exactly, does the thread title refer to?
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Old 15th July 2009, 08:54 AM
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It would be a shift in policy if Britain actually obided by the ATT.
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Old 15th July 2009, 09:11 AM
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You don't? Then what, exactly, does the thread title refer to?
It refers to the UK government actually taking action that reflects its rhetoric.
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Old 15th July 2009, 11:16 AM
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The British Government has reacted to Israel's bombardment and invasion of Gaza last January by barring further exports of components used in naval gunships which took part in the three-week operation.
Jesus, what morons. The defense industry's one of the few you've got left and Israel's one of your main competitors.

I guess this could just be an excuse to prevent the sale of something valuable. Let's hope so.
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Old 15th July 2009, 11:30 AM
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Jesus, what morons. The defense industry's one of the few you've got left and Israel's one of your main competitors.

I guess this could just be an excuse to prevent the sale of something valuable. Let's hope so.
So, Neko. Just come here to troll today?

I think we can manage without selling arms to be used in human rights abuses.
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The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it... Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate.... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

— Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Old 15th July 2009, 11:34 AM
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So, Neko. Just come here to troll today?
Just the facts, ma'am.

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I think we can manage without selling arms to be used in human rights abuses.
Really? What else have you got? I mean even the callcentres are delocalising nowadays, and finance is in the khazi, the French are buying all your old national industries... Seriously: weapons are your destiny, go for it.
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Old 15th July 2009, 11:35 AM
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Just the facts, ma'am.
Your opinions now qualify as facts? Nice ego you got going there.

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Really? What else have you got? I mean even the callcentres are delocalising nowadays, and finance is in the khazi, the French are buying all your old national industries... Seriously: weapons are your destiny, go for it.
No thanks.
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The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it... Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate.... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

— Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Old 15th July 2009, 11:38 AM
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Your opinions now qualify as facts? Nice ego you got going there.
Either that or you don't like the facts so you try to pretend they're just my opinions. Hmmm...?

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No thanks.
Suit yourselves. Can I have Rolls Royce in that case?
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Old 15th July 2009, 11:41 AM
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Either that or you don't like the facts so you try to pretend they're just my opinions. Hmmm...?
No. They're just your opinions.

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Suit yourselves. Can I have Rolls Royce in that case?
No.
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The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it... Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate.... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

— Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Old 15th July 2009, 11:44 AM
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Either that or you don't like the facts so you try to pretend they're just my opinions. Hmmm...?
Morality was never really one of Nekos strong points.

Let's face it, she would rather live in a world where human rights abuses could continue, just so long as there is money flowing.
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Old 15th July 2009, 11:44 AM
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No.
Well you certainly don't want it - it makes all those nasty engines for the military - don't be a dog in the manger.
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